Curse

Net The Nabi · May 05, 2011, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewSX

Read a couple of pages ago for a discussion on Elites for Resto Necs....

Just read though that page, but it doesn't look like there was a clear consensus on what to use. Xinraes works for me because its not like the hero spams it, its only used when needed. The only other option that looks enticing to me is Wail of Doom, and to be honest I don't trust the hero with it, and I won't micro a skill that to me seems largely unneeded.

AndrewSX · May 05, 2011, 09:28 PM // 21:28

The fact that there isn't a really amazing elite for Resto Necs is the point.

Options: Xinrae, Remedy(weapon spells), Wail(hero AI?), Veins(cold damage....), Reaper's mark(overkill e.management), Channeling stuff-SoS, Caretaker's, Clamor(requires spec in chan).

Large variety of variations, but no one of them is really a ultimate choiche.
Expecially when you don't want weapon spells cancel splinter.

Net The Nabi · May 05, 2011, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by SongOf

Did you meant to use Wielder's Remedy instead of Mending Grip?

Actually I meant to have wielders boon. I already have 3 condition removers.

EDIT: As far as the elite goes, I agree there is no ultimate choice so I will probably be sticking with Xinraes

zweetreet · May 06, 2011, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Net The Nabi

EDIT: As far as the elite goes, I agree there is no ultimate choice so I will probably be sticking with Xinraes

the reason i love BiP :

you can lose some e-management skills on ur heroes,
and put in more dmg / annoy

i run 4 mesmers and bring Ebon battle standard of Wisdom so quick recharge on everyone and less e-management than usual

Belzebu · May 09, 2011, 03:21 AM // 03:21

What you guys suggest to my build?
I actually just got some ideas from here and put together.

Codes:
OgkjYxXYpSPYAZ8G4G5irS8gyb
OAWjQugsoNYTrX40b64smJXnJ
OACjEyiM5MXTMW1kZexkmTuhJ
OAhjYgHaIPP1qqlwOMOlmTuhJ
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OQhkAoB8AGK0LwKQeGCIJQGwy3FD
OQlkAgC8AaeDNY6Z6yBDhMwyfHD
OQCjUmmMaOt7gsF+CXjl344dM

AndrewSX · May 09, 2011, 06:51 AM // 06:51

^This is one of the Team builds where suggestions are only personal preferences

In other words, if you're fine with it, you should be able to roll in pve with ease.
(For example, i prefer dedicated Protter+Healer, instead of all this hybrid around.)

I'd say to remove one of the res on the para (Sig of return+Weshallreturn is redundant), and remember to micro Mop as much as you can to increase efficiency.

outlaw161 · May 09, 2011, 08:37 AM // 08:37

Andrew is right,I prefer flesh of my flesh instead of the death pact signet in the ST,just my exp with it..

majoho · May 09, 2011, 10:43 AM // 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belzebu

What you guys suggest to my build?
I actually just got some ideas from here and put together.

The channeling magic skills on the Soultwisting rit are pretty pointless

I would suggest this instead

OAWjQug8gNYTrX4cEmBICJXnJ

Also I would suggest you use e-surge instead of panic, the mesmers already have plenty of interrupts.

outlaw161 · May 09, 2011, 12:36 PM // 12:36

why powerdrain?over energy mangem..I think you can fit better enchant removal

Jeydra · May 09, 2011, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

My wish for a third mesmer came true with the Razah update, yay!

Currently using this build (PvX with template codes) with Razah as ESurge domination mesmer:

If needed I switch ESurge on Domination #1 to Panic.

The Paragon's a real weakness in this build. Why do you have one? If it's for Fall Back and Stand Your Ground, you could easily slot those on someone as a secondary /P spec. Anthem of Envy isn't all that much with just one spirit spammer. We Shall Return can easily be subbed out for a hard res with all the Rits and /Rt's around.

Suggestion: remove the Paragon, make it an Invoke Ele with SYG and Fall Back. With that, remove Mark of Pain from the PoD Nec, and put in DPS / Flesh of my Flesh. I think Enfeebling Blood is bad, especially since you got Aegis, but up to you. I also think WoW is bad, I'd use Life instead but again, up to you. Finally may not need Splinter Weapon without the Para, use Painful Bond or Lamentation or Gaze of Fury or something, your choice.

@majoho - you definitely do not want to run that, ST + Boon of Creation is already big energy so you do not need that much more energy management. Either start using Communing offensive spirits and micro Shelter, or give the hero some Rit heals and slot something else on the N/Rt (Command shouts, Desecrate / Defile Enchantments, Weaken Armour, etc).

Dzjudz · May 09, 2011, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Well I never put a res on a healer, unless it's UA on a monk (but generally I wouldn't run a dedicated healer).

The para might actually do more damage than an invoke ele just with Splinter Weapon triggers alone (keep in mind the invoke ele has no armor-ignoring damage). And he provides 100% SYG uptime as well as offensive boosts. The occasions I do replace it, I replace it with a RoJ monk.

Enfeebling Blood is bad? It's the best curses skill in the game! Almost free long-lasting aoe weakness? Yes please.

WoW is replaced by Life in the default build, but I don't like Life better at all. It's a randomly times heal, while WoW is used effectively when an ally is under heavy attack.

Xenomortis · May 09, 2011, 06:09 PM // 18:09

It's not really that Enfeebling Blood is bad; it can prevent a lot.
It's more that the skill is redundant.

majoho · May 09, 2011, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

@majoho - you definitely do not want to run that, ST + Boon of Creation is already big energy so you do not need that much more energy management. Either start using Communing offensive spirits and micro Shelter, or give the hero some Rit heals and slot something else on the N/Rt (Command shouts, Desecrate / Defile Enchantments, Weaken Armour, etc).

Don't disagree but what he originally had was just pointless, no real damage.

Personally I stopped running a ST, at some point I thought it was good but I find monk-prots just work better in most situations.

I really like Dzjudz build, the paragon is optional you could run something else instead of it.

Plutoman · May 09, 2011, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

Well I never put a res on a healer, unless it's UA on a monk (but generally I wouldn't run a dedicated healer).

The para might actually do more damage than an invoke ele just with Splinter Weapon triggers alone (keep in mind the invoke ele has no armor-ignoring damage). And he provides 100% SYG uptime as well as offensive boosts. The occasions I do replace it, I replace it with a RoJ monk.

Enfeebling Blood is bad? It's the best curses skill in the game! Almost free long-lasting aoe weakness? Yes please.

WoW is replaced by Life in the default build, but I don't like Life better at all. It's a randomly times heal, while WoW is used effectively when an ally is under heavy attack.

Invoke does quite a bit of damage due to armor penetration. It makes up for the lack of armor ignoring damage, I think people tend to automatically discount it. I just ran the math for it, and I think people'd be surprised.

However, I wouldn't discount the paragon, either. They can be pretty useful and effective, and splinter does mean his damage isn't lacking.

Dzjudz · May 09, 2011, 09:25 PM // 21:25

I know there's armor penetration, but 25% usually doesn't get you to 60 armor in HM (would mean enemy armor of 80 or lower), which is what would be needed to do description damage. If you did the stated damage, invoke lightning + chain lightning at 16 air magic would do the same damage as 4 hits with splinter at 14 channeling. Of course, you are also relying on enchantment on the ele (for energy and against exhaustion) and the command support is weaker as well. I'm probably making the ele sound worse than he is though. I'd take Weaken Armor with me though if bringing an ele.

Plutoman · May 09, 2011, 10:14 PM // 22:14

You are, actually, because of the way it works, and caster targets of level 26-27 and lower have 80AR or less, so it's actually more effective than you might think, especially the lower the levels go (using weaken armor means any caster under level 33, and warrior under 26-27 would take stated damage)... but it's also chance as to whether it's better or not. And splinter's so powerful that it's really not an adequate comparison - it's better to compare against FoC/E-Surge and other elites. I like a paragon in the team, the support is pretty nice, and I'm a fan of SYG. I doubt I'd switch it out myself, because splinter's powerful and you need something using it. And boy, those spears can be nice with splinter.

Belzebu · May 10, 2011, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Thanks for the feedback, I'm getting ideas before I make my "final" hero build.
This is the new bars I got, what you guys think?

Codes:
OgkjYxXYpSPYAZ8G4G5irS8gyb
OgNDwcPPP1CaRARLWPqb3VSC
OASjEyiM5MXTMW1kZexkmTuhJ
OAhjYgHaIPP1qqlwOMOlmTuhJ
OAhDYYxnSyBVBoBbhfClBWCVV
OQhkAoB8AGK0LwKQeGCIJQGwy3FD
OQlkAgC8AaezJY6Z6yBDhMwyfHD
OQCjUmmMaOt7gsF+CXjF/44dM

Voodoo Rage · May 10, 2011, 01:15 AM // 01:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belzebu

Thanks for the feedback, I'm getting ideas before I make my "final" hero build.
This is the new bars I got, what you guys think?

What I would most like changed is your own build actually. Is your Ebon Ward in the right range for your spear attacks, pet, and minions? I personally like to run something similar but instead use the /A dagger version which keeps me right alongside my pet and minions putting the ward in the perfect spot. I'm also not a fan of the elite there, I'd like to see Enraged Lunge instead as I think your going to be plenty durable enough with your team backing your up.

Just my opinions but probably more appropriate for the ranger forum.

Belzebu · May 10, 2011, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Yeah, I usually go to the mob to cast the ward, I don't cast it in the spear range, the shield helps tanking the mobs, thing that dagger don't offer.
HoA add armor ignoring damage, also free 1 skill slot and heal the pet that act as shield. There is a topic on ranger forum talking about HoA vs Enraged Lunge.

I was really in doubt between E. Lunge or HaO but I think very useful have a ress in my build since I'm usually the last alive, just personal preference in the end.

Jeydra · May 10, 2011, 04:41 AM // 04:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

Well I never put a res on a healer, unless it's UA on a monk (but generally I wouldn't run a dedicated healer).

The para might actually do more damage than an invoke ele just with Splinter Weapon triggers alone (keep in mind the invoke ele has no armor-ignoring damage). And he provides 100% SYG uptime as well as offensive boosts. The occasions I do replace it, I replace it with a RoJ monk.

Enfeebling Blood is bad? It's the best curses skill in the game! Almost free long-lasting aoe weakness? Yes please.

WoW is replaced by Life in the default build, but I don't like Life better at all. It's a randomly times heal, while WoW is used effectively when an ally is under heavy attack.

Yet another option is to use the UA Monk in place of the Paragon, and then making the Curses Nec bring mass damage.

I have two main problems with Paragons: one, they attack at less than full cast range, and two, they require line of sight. Invoke bypasses both these problems. I also highly doubt the Paragon outdamages an Invoke Ele, because every Invoke cast is usually 50% more damage to affected targets than Splinter Weapon procs. It can be even more when backed by Weaken Armour / EBSoH. They're also better at taking down whichever target you want taken down, since Splinter does not trigger on the targetted monster. As for Command support, there's little to boost offensively (um ... wand criticals with GFTE? Envy's triggering off only one Rit spammer), but 100% SYG uptime and long Fall Back are nice to have, I'll grant.

Enfeebling Blood is weak in general because it's primarily an anti-physical skill and there're so many better ways to deal with physical damage. Just look at your team - you have minions to hold aggro, spirits to take damage, Aegis to give 50% party-wide block, and a dedicated anti-physical Mesmer. You should be taking only a pittance of damage from physicals! Even if physical damage gets through, you have Stand Your Ground to negate some of the damage. I view Enfeebling Blood as a reasonable filler skill in Curses if you really have nothing else to use, but otherwise it's pretty low down the list of skills to have.

If you're worried about Life's unreliability, I'd say take out WoW (which is another anti-physical skill that's unlikely to be needed ...) for Spirit Transfer. With Transfer, you are unlikely to need MBAS. Again I'd use Life, but up to you.